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scruggnut

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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:34pm

Originally posted by Islamaholic

The problem is simply, now, how to organize two State entities on that land, how to define borders, reach agreement on the "right of return" of refugees and their descendants, share water and other resources, cooperate for economic development etc etc

Well both Palestinians and Israelis believe they have a right to the holy city, this where the feud really lies. At the moment one way of getting rid of Palestinians from the holy city is that Palestinians are forced to pay taxes, the Israelis intend to drive all the Palestinians out in this manner to the Westbank, because they can't afford to pay taxes. A friend of mine in Jerusalem e-mailed this morning. This is what she wrote about a conversation she had a with a Palestinian,

"these locals are forced to pay as much as 70% tax (not just income tax but ALL tax) and this is one way of
driving them out of the Holy Land and into the West Bank. Most of them are in debt to the Government here and some cannot travel until the debt is paid as a result. He says that there are only 1 or 2% of families who are well off now as a result. Most people would have a much better quality of life in the West Bank but are forced to live in these conditions as a result of
wanting to stay and protect Al-Aqsa."

ma'salam

She said, "the locals"....is that everyone, or do only the palestianians have to pay that tax?

Waiting an eternity for an apology from one who never apologizes but always demands one.

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Islamaholic
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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 1:38pm

Hi, sorry I should have been clearer. Being 'holy land,' both the Palestinians and Israelis would like to reside there. Hence, the taxes are going to be much higher than elsewhere. Both the Jews and Palestinians pay the taxes but its fairly clear that the Palestinians aren't that well-off. The only reason they're sticking around is to save Al-Aqsa mosque. If taxes continue to rise, then the Palestinians won't be able to afford it and will be finally driven out.

peace

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jdjd

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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 1:57pm

it sounds like a fair system then, i cant buy a house in Belgravia as i dont have the funds, perhaps all the well to do folks living there should pay my taxes so i can get a house there

why is it not possible to move out into a less expensive area , but still being allowed to travel to access the mosque

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Aiesha

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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:57pm

You guys are not getting it ............. the reason taxes are so high are coz the Jews are well off and can pay them but the Palastinians are not so they cant afford to pay the taxes and therefor will eventually be kicked out of there and once they are gone who is going to protect Al-Aqsa?

Its not that there are taxes to pay ofcourse evryone living there should pay them but keep in mind the wealth diffrence between the two sectors living there, and if the Muslims are out of that place it will be a matter of days b4 Al-Aqsa is braught down.

99% of the times the pictures of Al-Aqsa shown (the green globe like structure) in the media/west/evrywhere is not the right masjid its a picture of a masjid near by, so Jews can destroy the Masjid in a heartbeat and then tell the world we havnt done it by showing the pictures of the other Masjid which is recognised as Al-Aqsa im not lying ohnestly, if the muslims are driven out then Al-Aqsa would be demolished, and no one would belive them as the pictures so widely distributed of Masjid Al-Aqsa are of another masjid, only the ones living there know the diffrence between the 2 Masjids.

THE MOMENT MUSLIMS ARE OUT OF THAT LAND THE MASJID WILL BE DEMOLISHED AND THAT IS THE REASON WHY THE TAXES ARE SO HIGH TO DRIVE THEM OUT.

Aiesha

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scruggnut

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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 3:00pm

Have you seen the real al-aqsa with your own eyes?

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jdjd

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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 3:11pm

my initial discussion/rant was that if muslims around the world want to see an improvement in the lives of palestinians, they should be doing more to encourage an atmosphere where jews and arabs can create some kind of agreement to coexist, rather than promises to boycott products with a tenuous link to supporting israel

exactly how that is acheivable - over to you ... but supporting a group like hamas is not going to do anything for arab-jew relations

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DowBuzz

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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 3:59pm

Originally posted by jdjd

but supporting a group like hamas is not going to do anything for arab-jew relations

No you are right it is not going to do anything for arab-jew relations.

But why should we care anymore? Why should we support the government and the majority of the jewish nation the "STATE" of Israel?

Shouldn't our concern be about building a vibrant Palestinian State? Shouldn't we be concerned about creating a banking system, a currency, building power plants, school systems, start a manufacturing sector and all of the infrastructure necessary for a independent State?

Shouldn't each of us come to terms with the State of War that exists between the State of Israel and the Palestinians? Decide once and for all time who has the moral high ground in the conflict? Lobby for the United States Government to at least spend the same amount of money on Palestine as they do on Israel?

It is time to get busy building and stop the criticism.

Hamas is the military wing of the Palestinians, will always be. Perhaps one of the superpowers needs to arm them to the teeth the way that the United States has armed Israel with nuclear weapons.

Then maybe the greed heads will cease thier continued maifest destiny of taking over the Middle East in the name of Israel.

Build Palestine I say, what is the new currency going to look like?

Hosea 13:10
"I will be your King. Where is there any other? "

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jdjd

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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 4:31pm

i agree that muslims priority should be bettering the lives of palestinians - rather than continually blaming the jews - historically their were always jews in palestine, and they have a right to be there, just as the muslims do

i dont think that you are correct in saying that the US armed israel with nuclear weapons - that prize belongs to the French I think

the 'state of war' as you put it was declared - beyond a shadow of doubt by the arab states, and Israel has made attempts of appeasement over the last few centuries, the UN proposed a seperation of palestine into arab and jewish sectors, the jewish sector became recognised as israel - however the arabs never accepted the boundaries proposed (or even the existence of a seperate Israel) and therefore there is no palestinian state as palestinians do not accept the boundaries they believe have been imposed on them by the international community

what would you propose, other than both sides agreeing with the UN

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Islamaholic
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Posted: 09 June 2006 at 5:28pm

why is it not possible to move out into a less expensive area , but still being allowed to travel to access the mosque

Its not easy to travel around in Jerusalem. Palestinians are stopped at every check-point to produce identity (at times they have to wait in long queues in the hot weather.) If British tourists are hassled at checkpoints, its hard to imagine what the Palestinians encounter at them.

peace

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Author	Message
scruggnut Mureed Location: Canada Religion: Unknown(Unknown) Posts: 3914 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:34pm
	*Originally posted by Islamaholic* The problem is simply, now, how to organize two State entities on that land, how to define borders, reach agreement on the "right of return" of refugees and their descendants, share water and other resources, cooperate for economic development etc etc Well both Palestinians and Israelis believe they have a right to the holy city, this where the feud really lies. At the moment one way of getting rid of Palestinians from the holy city is that Palestinians are forced to pay taxes, the Israelis intend to drive all the Palestinians out in this manner to the Westbank, because they can't afford to pay taxes. A friend of mine in Jerusalem e-mailed this morning. This is what she wrote about a conversation she had a with a Palestinian, "these locals are forced to pay as much as 70% tax (not just income tax but ALL tax) and this is one way of driving them out of the Holy Land and into the West Bank. Most of them are in debt to the Government here and some cannot travel until the debt is paid as a result. He says that there are only 1 or 2% of families who are well off now as a result. Most people would have a much better quality of life in the West Bank but are forced to live in these conditions as a result of wanting to stay and protect Al-Aqsa." ma'salam She said, "the locals"....is that everyone, or do only the palestianians have to pay that tax?
	Waiting an eternity for an apology from one who never apologizes but always demands one.
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Islamaholic Graduate Location: United Kingdom Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 2557 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 1:38pm
	Hi, sorry I should have been clearer. Being 'holy land,' both the Palestinians and Israelis would like to reside there. Hence, the taxes are going to be much higher than elsewhere. Both the Jews and Palestinians pay the taxes but its fairly clear that the Palestinians aren't that well-off. The only reason they're sticking around is to save Al-Aqsa mosque. If taxes continue to rise, then the Palestinians won't be able to afford it and will be finally driven out. peace
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jdjd Senior Member Location: United Kingdom Religion: Atheist(Atheist) Posts: 338 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 1:57pm
	it sounds like a fair system then, i cant buy a house in Belgravia as i dont have the funds, perhaps all the well to do folks living there should pay my taxes so i can get a house there why is it not possible to move out into a less expensive area , but still being allowed to travel to access the mosque
	jd
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Aiesha Freshman Location: Canada Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 26 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:57pm
	You guys are not getting it ............. the reason taxes are so high are coz the Jews are well off and can pay them but the Palastinians are not so they cant afford to pay the taxes and therefor will eventually be kicked out of there and once they are gone who is going to protect Al-Aqsa? Its not that there are taxes to pay ofcourse evryone living there should pay them but keep in mind the wealth diffrence between the two sectors living there, and if the Muslims are out of that place it will be a matter of days b4 Al-Aqsa is braught down. 99% of the times the pictures of Al-Aqsa shown (the green globe like structure) in the media/west/evrywhere is not the right masjid its a picture of a masjid near by, so Jews can destroy the Masjid in a heartbeat and then tell the world we havnt done it by showing the pictures of the other Masjid which is recognised as Al-Aqsa im not lying ohnestly, if the muslims are driven out then Al-Aqsa would be demolished, and no one would belive them as the pictures so widely distributed of Masjid Al-Aqsa are of another masjid, only the ones living there know the diffrence between the 2 Masjids. THE MOMENT MUSLIMS ARE OUT OF THAT LAND THE MASJID WILL BE DEMOLISHED AND THAT IS THE REASON WHY THE TAXES ARE SO HIGH TO DRIVE THEM OUT.
	Aiesha
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scruggnut Mureed Location: Canada Religion: Unknown(Unknown) Posts: 3914 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 3:00pm
	Have you seen the real al-aqsa with your own eyes?
	Waiting an eternity for an apology from one who never apologizes but always demands one.
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jdjd Senior Member Location: United Kingdom Religion: Atheist(Atheist) Posts: 338 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 3:11pm
	my initial discussion/rant was that if muslims around the world want to see an improvement in the lives of palestinians, they should be doing more to encourage an atmosphere where jews and arabs can create some kind of agreement to coexist, rather than promises to boycott products with a tenuous link to supporting israel exactly how that is acheivable - over to you ... but supporting a group like hamas is not going to do anything for arab-jew relations
	jd
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DowBuzz Senior Member Location: United Kingdom Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 687 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 3:59pm
	*Originally posted by jdjd* but supporting a group like hamas is not going to do anything for arab-jew relations No you are right it is not going to do anything for arab-jew relations. But why should we care anymore? Why should we support the government and the majority of the jewish nation the "STATE" of Israel? Shouldn't our concern be about building a vibrant Palestinian State? Shouldn't we be concerned about creating a banking system, a currency, building power plants, school systems, start a manufacturing sector and all of the infrastructure necessary for a independent State? Shouldn't each of us come to terms with the State of War that exists between the State of Israel and the Palestinians? Decide once and for all time who has the moral high ground in the conflict? Lobby for the United States Government to at least spend the same amount of money on Palestine as they do on Israel? It is time to get busy building and stop the criticism. Hamas is the military wing of the Palestinians, will always be. Perhaps one of the superpowers needs to arm them to the teeth the way that the United States has armed Israel with nuclear weapons. Then maybe the greed heads will cease thier continued maifest destiny of taking over the Middle East in the name of Israel. Build Palestine I say, what is the new currency going to look like?
	Hosea 13:10 "I will be your King. Where is there any other? "
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jdjd Senior Member Location: United Kingdom Religion: Atheist(Atheist) Posts: 338 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 4:31pm
	i agree that muslims priority should be bettering the lives of palestinians - rather than continually blaming the jews - historically their were always jews in palestine, and they have a right to be there, just as the muslims do i dont think that you are correct in saying that the US armed israel with nuclear weapons - that prize belongs to the French I think the 'state of war' as you put it was declared - beyond a shadow of doubt by the arab states, and Israel has made attempts of appeasement over the last few centuries, the UN proposed a seperation of palestine into arab and jewish sectors, the jewish sector became recognised as israel - however the arabs never accepted the boundaries proposed (or even the existence of a seperate Israel) and therefore there is no palestinian state as palestinians do not accept the boundaries they believe have been imposed on them by the international community what would you propose, other than both sides agreeing with the UN
	jd
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Islamaholic Graduate Location: United Kingdom Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 2557 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 09 June 2006 at 5:28pm
	why is it not possible to move out into a less expensive area , but still being allowed to travel to access the mosque Its not easy to travel around in Jerusalem. Palestinians are stopped at every check-point to produce identity (at times they have to wait in long queues in the hot weather.) If British tourists are hassled at checkpoints, its hard to imagine what the Palestinians encounter at them. peace
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