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john23

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Topic: I DONT AGREE WITH MADDHABS......
Posted: 17 March 2007 at 9:25pm

Why do we divide, we are muslims, we are all brothers and sisters. Most importantly we are one, i've had enough experiences where I felt mistreatment solely because I didnt belong to a specific maddhab or school of thought. Just those types of reactions makes this statement in the quran more significant. Why do we continually divide each other, and why is their civil strife in muslim countries. It's because of the creations of maddhabs that are plaguing our religion....

The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the [sic] which we have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which we enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them..." (42:13)

[6:159] Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with
you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform
them of everything they had done.

[30:32] (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide
their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what
they have.

Edited by john23 - 17 March 2007 at 10:20pm

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Posted: 17 March 2007 at 9:29pm

If you don't understand them then wouldn't it make more sense to learn about them instead of blaming them for all the world's problems?

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shobar

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Posted: 18 March 2007 at 5:23am

Salaam jhon23, I found these links helpfull to more understand about madhahib

New Converts: Which Madhhab to Follow?

Sticking to a Specific Madhhab in `Ibadat?

The Evolution of the Schools of Fiqh & Muslims' Unity

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Emad

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Posted: 18 March 2007 at 8:28am

A madhab and a sect are two different things.

Verily, either we or you are rightly guided or in plain error. (Quran Saba:24)

Emad@whyislam.org

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whirlingEcstasy

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Posted: 18 March 2007 at 10:43am

Assalamualaikum,

Dear John, sectarianism is caused by not agreeing to some ones vies which creates a division.

Accepting some one's opioion as valid and respecting it, causes Unity.

Don't forget, Imam Hassan radhiallahu taa'la anhu could have claimed caliphate, but gave it up to promote unity amongst Muslims, by giving a pledge on Hazrat Muawiya radhiallahu taa'la anhu's hands, rather than forcing people to accept his views.

There have been many other incident which you can find in the Ahadith, where the Sahaba ridhwanullahi taa'la alaihim ajmaeen have had differences of opinion yet accepted each others views.

This is how unity is established.

Eid e Meelad mubarak ho musalmanon ko, gham is raat hota hai shaytanon ko.

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Deserves2Die

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Posted: 18 March 2007 at 12:13pm

Originally posted by Emad

A madhab and a sect are two different things.

EXACTLY! I'm not belong to any Sect, neither do I follow any Madhab. Whatever I find in the Quran and Hadith is my MADHHAB! Which ALSO was the Madhab of 4 Imaams as well.

www.jdci.org

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M.A.R.W.A.N
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Posted: 18 March 2007 at 2:27pm

AA John,

The purpose of a madhhab is solely to help, nothing else. A madhhab is commonly known as a school of jurisprudence, which is basically a methodology of understanding Islamic Law (Sharia), it doesn't change the fact that we're all muslim even if we interpret things differently. Islam is for all people, and not all people think alike, so as long as we remain within the boudaries of the basics, and as long as we are sincere, then we are free to interpret Islam as best we see it.

Think of the Constitution, Americans see the good in it, but it doesn't mean we all understand it the same way...but that doesn't change the fact we're all still Americans.

A sect is merely a group that breaks off from another and forms its own.

A sect (like the Asraqi's) has its own new goals
A madhhab (like Hanafi or Shafi'i) tries to understand the original goals (of Islam) as they were intended (by Allah).

Comparing a sect with a madhhab is like comparing the KKK with the Supreme Court of the US.

Edited by M.A.R.W.A.N - 18 March 2007 at 2:33pm

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IssaRaheem

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Posted: 18 March 2007 at 4:12pm

Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N

Comparing a sect with a madhhab is like comparing the KKK with the Supreme Court of the US.

Salaam,

Mashallah, Good analogy brother..

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Traveller

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Posted: 19 March 2007 at 12:05am

If one is trying to get to a destination, wouldn't it be more easier to travel on a paved road rather than make your own road?

The madhabs have paved the way for us.

In life, be like a traveller. Take just what you need

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john23

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Posted: 21 March 2007 at 7:38pm

Thats why we have the QURAN and SUNNAH for that.

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Al-Cordoby

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Posted: 23 March 2007 at 3:16am

Assalamo Alaikom John:

The Qur'an and Sunnah are indeed the two basic sources for reaching the correct fiqh rulings.

However, there are a number of points to consider:

1- In order to be able to reach the right answer on a certain topic, like inheritance or trade for example, a Muslim would need to know and understand all the Qur'anic verses which relate to this topic and all the hadiths. Considering that there are tens of thousands of hadiths reported in the authentic books of hadiths, and that studying the different tafsirs of the Qur'an would take tens of years to complete, this is a very difficult task that would take a student on his own at least 30 years.

The scholars who established the 4 schools of fiqh have already gone through that and the rulings of the 4 schools are based on Qur;an and Sunnah. So till a Muslim student is able to be at their same level, it would be advised that he or she benefits from their effort while always studying the evidence (from The Qur'an and Sunnah) which they provide

2- The other point is that in addition to The Qur'an and Sunnah, which are the main 2 sources, there are other sources, detailed in the field of Usul Al-Fiqh (Source Methodology in Islamic Jurisprudence) such as Al-Ijmaa', Al-Qiyas, Al-Istihsaan, and others

For an introduction to Usul Al-Fiqh, you may wish to have a look at this book :

http://witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/TA_uaf/Default.htm

My Blog
Muslim Heritage

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john23

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Posted: 23 March 2007 at 6:09am

I showed you the verses clearly on the top of the page that the quran specifically is against divisions or sects in Islam. And any of you who need to refresh your memory on the definition of divisions, here it is: the action of separating something into parts, or the process of being separated : the division of the land into small fields | a gene that helps regulate cell division.

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Al-Cordoby

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Posted: 23 March 2007 at 7:16am

A Muslim who follows the Hanafi school is no different from a Muslim who follows the Shafi'i school or the Maliki or the Hanbali, or no school

We are all Muslims John

There is no division

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mai moslemah

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Posted: 23 March 2007 at 7:23am

salam John

If u dont want to follow a madhab dont follow any.It is not wrong to follow a madhab but what is wrong is to be a fanatic to this madhab.I made a post regarding this topic before ..please read it

lets agree on few points
1- All four imams was great and righteous Muslims
2- All of them were humans ,so they could have mistakes
3- If they did mistakes they will be rewarded for their efforts and if not they will be double rewarded for their effort and right decision

My point here is not to follow blindly and be FANATIC to a specific madhab
and all the four Imams agree on my point

Imam abuhaneefa said:""When I say something contradicting the Book of Allaah the Exalted or what is narrated from the Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), then ignore my saying.""

Imam Malik ibn Anas said:""Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it.""

Imam shafi'i said:"The Muslims are unanimously agreed that if a sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) is made clear to someone, it is not permitted for him to leave it for the saying of anyone else."

"If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), and leave what I have said."

Imam Ahmed ibn hambal said" "Do not copy your Deen from anyone of these, but whatever comes from the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and his Companions, take it; next are their Successors, where a man has a choice." "

All of them against being blindly following and Fanatic to one Madhab

Muslim should not devide themselves.
example: there is muslims who follow a madhab who say touching woman invalid ablution "wudu" another madhab say no it does not invalid wudu

so those of the first madhab will refuse to pray behind an imam which follow the second madhab because his wudu could be invalid so his prayer is invalid..and this is not a story it really happen.and even more there is people who become too fanatic to make other out of Islam because they do not follow their madhab.subhan Allah

Do you know brother that there is one madhab by itself view All Islam but we can say that All the four madhabs together view Islam?so being fanatic to one madhab will make you loose part of Islam

Allah did not revealed madhab but he revealed Islam
he didn't order us to follow Madhab but he order us to follow Quran and teaching of prophet Muhammed peace be upon him(sunnah)

i understand your point about they had a better understanding than us today.I agree

so what we should we do now?

the answer in the Quran in(61:43)" so ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know-- "

For a Muslim who does not have enough knowledge to go and investigate the evidence of each madhab and each fatwa(to know the Halal and the haram), he have to ask the ppl of knowledge
the only problem this Muslim will face is finding a trustful and knowledgeable scholar once he found him,he can take his knowledge from him.

If u choose to take one of the four imams as your scholar,so no problem and nothing wrong in that but be open minded to the truth whatever it was,you have to remember that the four Imam were humans and they didn't get Revelation from Allah so they could make mistakes,and in both cases they are rewarded from Allah.

Allah knows best.

Edited by mai moslemah - 23 March 2007 at 7:28am

But don`t you see?that i am truely free? this piece of scarf on me;i wear so proudly to preserve my dignity,modesty & integrity....why can`t i just be me??? "i am the one who is free!!!!

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john23 Sophmore Member Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 76 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Topic: I DONT AGREE WITH MADDHABS...... Posted: 17 March 2007 at 9:25pm
	Why do we divide, we are muslims, we are all brothers and sisters. Most importantly we are one, i've had enough experiences where I felt mistreatment solely because I didnt belong to a specific maddhab or school of thought. Just those types of reactions makes this statement in the quran more significant. Why do we continually divide each other, and why is their civil strife in muslim countries. It's because of the creations of maddhabs that are plaguing our religion.... The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the [sic] which we have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which we enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them..." (42:13) [6:159] Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything they had done. [30:32] (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have. Edited by john23 - 17 March 2007 at 10:20pm

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Guests Guest Group	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 17 March 2007 at 9:29pm
	If you don't understand them then wouldn't it make more sense to learn about them instead of blaming them for all the world's problems?
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shobar Sophmore Member Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 342 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 18 March 2007 at 5:23am
	Salaam jhon23, I found these links helpfull to more understand about madhahib New Converts: Which Madhhab to Follow? Sticking to a Specific Madhhab in `Ibadat? The Evolution of the Schools of Fiqh & Muslims' Unity
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Emad Admin Group Moderator Location: United States Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 1113 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 18 March 2007 at 8:28am
	A madhab and a sect are two different things.
	Verily, either we or you are rightly guided or in plain error. (Quran Saba:24) Emad@whyislam.org
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whirlingEcstasy Mureed Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 4272 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 18 March 2007 at 10:43am
	Assalamualaikum, Dear John, sectarianism is caused by not agreeing to some ones vies which creates a division. Accepting some one's opioion as valid and respecting it, causes Unity. Don't forget, Imam Hassan radhiallahu taa'la anhu could have claimed caliphate, but gave it up to promote unity amongst Muslims, by giving a pledge on Hazrat Muawiya radhiallahu taa'la anhu's hands, rather than forcing people to accept his views. There have been many other incident which you can find in the Ahadith, where the Sahaba ridhwanullahi taa'la alaihim ajmaeen have had differences of opinion yet accepted each others views. This is how unity is established.
	Eid e Meelad mubarak ho musalmanon ko, gham is raat hota hai shaytanon ko.
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Deserves2Die Mureed Location: Saudi Arabia Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 4250 Forum Rating: 128	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 18 March 2007 at 12:13pm
	*Originally posted by Emad* A madhab and a sect are two different things. . EXACTLY! I'm not belong to any Sect, neither do I follow any Madhab. Whatever I find in the Quran and Hadith is my MADHHAB! Which ALSO was the Madhab of 4 Imaams as well.
	www.jdci.org
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M.A.R.W.A.N Mureed Dragon rescuer, Virgin slayer. Religion: Unknown(Unknown) Posts: 3114 Forum Rating: 134	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 18 March 2007 at 2:27pm
	AA John, The purpose of a madhhab is solely to help, nothing else. A madhhab is commonly known as a school of jurisprudence, which is basically a methodology of understanding Islamic Law (Sharia), it doesn't change the fact that we're all muslim even if we interpret things differently. Islam is for all people, and not all people think alike, so as long as we remain within the boudaries of the basics, and as long as we are sincere, then we are free to interpret Islam as best we see it. Think of the Constitution, Americans see the good in it, but it doesn't mean we all understand it the same way...but that doesn't change the fact we're all still Americans. A sect is merely a group that breaks off from another and forms its own. A sect (like the Asraqi's) has its own new goals A madhhab (like Hanafi or Shafi'i) tries to understand the original goals (of Islam) as they were intended (by Allah). Comparing a sect with a madhhab is like comparing the KKK with the Supreme Court of the US. Edited by M.A.R.W.A.N - 18 March 2007 at 2:33pm
	www.islamonline.net
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IssaRaheem Senior Member Location: United States Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 709 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 18 March 2007 at 4:12pm
	*Originally posted by M.A.R.W.A.N* Comparing a sect with a madhhab is like comparing the KKK with the Supreme Court of the US. Salaam, Mashallah, Good analogy brother..
	http://www.myspace.com/issaraheem
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Traveller Undergraduate Location: Singapore Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 1854 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 19 March 2007 at 12:05am
	If one is trying to get to a destination, wouldn't it be more easier to travel on a paved road rather than make your own road? The madhabs have paved the way for us.
	In life, be like a traveller. Take just what you need
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john23 Sophmore Member Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 76 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 21 March 2007 at 7:38pm
	Thats why we have the QURAN and SUNNAH for that.
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Al-Cordoby Admin Group Moderator Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 12053 Forum Rating: 159	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 23 March 2007 at 3:16am
	Assalamo Alaikom John: The Qur'an and Sunnah are indeed the two basic sources for reaching the correct fiqh rulings. However, there are a number of points to consider: 1- In order to be able to reach the right answer on a certain topic, like inheritance or trade for example, a Muslim would need to know and understand all the Qur'anic verses which relate to this topic and all the hadiths. Considering that there are tens of thousands of hadiths reported in the authentic books of hadiths, and that studying the different tafsirs of the Qur'an would take tens of years to complete, this is a very difficult task that would take a student on his own at least 30 years. The scholars who established the 4 schools of fiqh have already gone through that and the rulings of the 4 schools are based on Qur;an and Sunnah. So till a Muslim student is able to be at their same level, it would be advised that he or she benefits from their effort while always studying the evidence (from The Qur'an and Sunnah) which they provide 2- The other point is that in addition to The Qur'an and Sunnah, which are the main 2 sources, there are other sources, detailed in the field of Usul Al-Fiqh (Source Methodology in Islamic Jurisprudence) such as Al-Ijmaa', Al-Qiyas, Al-Istihsaan, and others For an introduction to Usul Al-Fiqh, you may wish to have a look at this book : http://witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/TA_uaf/Default.htm
	My Blog Muslim Heritage
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john23 Sophmore Member Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 76 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 23 March 2007 at 6:09am
	I showed you the verses clearly on the top of the page that the quran specifically is against divisions or sects in Islam. And any of you who need to refresh your memory on the definition of divisions, here it is: the action of separating something into parts, or the process of being separated : the division of the land into small fields \| a gene that helps regulate cell division.
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Al-Cordoby Admin Group Moderator Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 12053 Forum Rating: 159	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 23 March 2007 at 7:16am
	A Muslim who follows the Hanafi school is no different from a Muslim who follows the Shafi'i school or the Maliki or the Hanbali, or no school We are all Muslims John There is no division
	My Blog Muslim Heritage
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mai moslemah Mureed Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 3971 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 1 of 1 votes Posted: 23 March 2007 at 7:23am
	salam John If u dont want to follow a madhab dont follow any.It is not wrong to follow a madhab but what is wrong is to be a fanatic to this madhab.I made a post regarding this topic before ..please read it lets agree on few points 1- All four imams was great and righteous Muslims 2- All of them were humans ,so they could have mistakes 3- If they did mistakes they will be rewarded for their efforts and if not they will be double rewarded for their effort and right decision My point here is not to follow blindly and be FANATIC to a specific madhab and all the four Imams agree on my point Imam abuhaneefa said:""When I say something contradicting the Book of Allaah the Exalted or what is narrated from the Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), then ignore my saying."" Imam Malik ibn Anas said:""Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it."" Imam shafi'i said:"The Muslims are unanimously agreed that if a sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) is made clear to someone, it is not permitted for him to leave it for the saying of anyone else." "If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), and leave what I have said." Imam Ahmed ibn hambal said" "Do not copy your Deen from anyone of these, but whatever comes from the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and his Companions, take it; next are their Successors, where a man has a choice." " All of them against being blindly following and Fanatic to one Madhab Muslim should not devide themselves. example: there is muslims who follow a madhab who say touching woman invalid ablution "wudu" another madhab say no it does not invalid wudu so those of the first madhab will refuse to pray behind an imam which follow the second madhab because his wudu could be invalid so his prayer is invalid..and this is not a story it really happen.and even more there is people who become too fanatic to make other out of Islam because they do not follow their madhab.subhan Allah Do you know brother that there is one madhab by itself view All Islam but we can say that All the four madhabs together view Islam?so being fanatic to one madhab will make you loose part of Islam Allah did not revealed madhab but he revealed Islam he didn't order us to follow Madhab but he order us to follow Quran and teaching of prophet Muhammed peace be upon him(sunnah) i understand your point about they had a better understanding than us today.I agree so what we should we do now? the answer in the Quran in(61:43)" so ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know-- " For a Muslim who does not have enough knowledge to go and investigate the evidence of each madhab and each fatwa(to know the Halal and the haram), he have to ask the ppl of knowledge the only problem this Muslim will face is finding a trustful and knowledgeable scholar once he found him,he can take his knowledge from him. If u choose to take one of the four imams as your scholar,so no problem and nothing wrong in that but be open minded to the truth whatever it was,you have to remember that the four Imam were humans and they didn't get Revelation from Allah so they could make mistakes,and in both cases they are rewarded from Allah. Allah knows best. Edited by mai moslemah - 23 March 2007 at 7:28am
	But don`t you see?that i am truely free? this piece of scarf on me;i wear so proudly to preserve my dignity,modesty & integrity....why can`t i just be me??? "i am the one who is free!!!!
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The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.