Whyislam.org Forums: Ulema fatwas against Muslim fighting

Author

Message

Xenos

Senior Member

Location: Australia
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 466
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Topic: Ulema fatwas against Muslim fighting
Posted: 30 August 2007 at 6:37am

Just out of curiosity:

Where are the fatwas when Iraq invaded Kuwait? Where were the Ulemas giving Fatwas saying that they should not join the Iraqi army? Saying that it is haram? How about the Iraq Iran war? Where are the Ulemas?

Where were the Ulemas when Muslims fought Muslims in tribal war in Afghanistan? Taliban against Northern Alliance? Where are the Ulemas saying that it is haram and they should not join either of them?

Where were the Ulemas when Pakistani soldiers massacred their fellow Bangladeshi Muslims and raped Muslims women? Where were the Ulemas saying that it is haram to join Pakistani army?

Where are the Ulemas and their Fatwas about Fatah and Hamas killing each other?

"I am a slave. I eat as a slave eats and I sit as a slave sits.", Beloved, sallallahu alyhi wa-sallam.

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

Naadir Muhammed

Undergraduate

Location: United States
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 1788
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 02 September 2007 at 11:51pm

I agree with you all the way, Xenos.

Edited by Naadir Muhammed - 02 September 2007 at 11:51pm

There is only one death, so let it be in the path of Allah"

Shaykh 'Abdullah 'Azzam (RH)

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

ScoobyGurl

Mureed

The Modern Muslimah
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 3952
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 02 September 2007 at 11:57pm

ITA with you Xenos.

Edited by ScoobyGurl - 03 September 2007 at 8:46pm

"Every Muslim ought to be able to say 'The Qur'an has been revealed for me.'" Muhammad Asad
Islam in View

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

Faris al-Farik

Sophmore Member

Location: United States
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 330
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 03 September 2007 at 10:39am

Originally posted by Xenos

Just out of curiosity:

Where were the Ulemas when Pakistani soldiers massacred their fellow Bangladeshi Muslims and raped Muslims women? Where were the Ulemas saying that it is haram to join Pakistani army?

Where are the Ulemas and their Fatwas about Fatah and Hamas killing each other?

Hi Xenos: I should have read your post before I wrote mine. The US Army has many Muslims serving honorably and well. Chaplain Muhammad was the First Muslim Chaplain commissioned in the US Armed Forces. I personally know two Muslim chaplains serving (one is in Iraq) today.

Isolationism is not a good tool for Muslim who are called to be activists.

Thanks again!

Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth.(Qur'an 2:255)

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

steady
Graduate

Religion: Atheist(Atheist)
Posts: 2189
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 03 September 2007 at 11:59am

The point that the fatwa carefully avoids is that of being allowed to fight if you feel that the Muslim nation is under threat ...

Regimes like the Taliban and ideologies such as that espoused by Al-Qaida are destructive to Islam as they are to the West ... An example is the use of child suicide bombers by Abdullah Dadullah recently ...

Surely a good Muslim would join up and fight against such corrosive and pernicious belief systems in good conscience.

To see the world in a grain of sand,
and a heaven in a wild flower.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
and eternity in an hour. - Blake

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

jana.z

Mureed

Bismillah
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 3674
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:53pm

Originally posted by Xenos

Just out of curiosity:

Where were the Ulemas when Pakistani soldiers massacred their fellow Bangladeshi Muslims and raped Muslims women? Where were the Ulemas saying that it is haram to join Pakistani army?

Where are the Ulemas and their Fatwas about Fatah and Hamas killing each other?

absolutely awesome reply!!

And hold fast, all together to the rope of Allah and do not separate.”Âl’ Imran:103)

http://myimmatureviewpoint.blogspot.com/
http://solomuslimah.blogspot.com/

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

Azhar

Sophmore Member

Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 434
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 03 September 2007 at 3:55pm

There are several fatawa for each of those instances Xenos, and some of the scholars were even imprisoned and so on for issuing them in their respective countries, others were banished and so on. None of the fatawa have received as much flak, as those of the Iraq War, for stating only that the war is illegal from an Islamic perspective ?!?!

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

Xenos

Senior Member

Location: Australia
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 466
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 03 September 2007 at 8:31pm

Azhar,

Name me a single Pakistani scholar who was imprisoned - or even banished, as you claim, for giving fatwa against Pakistani butchering of their fellow Bangladeshi Muslim men, women and Children?

You know, Bangladeshi women wears saris. It is really a long piece of cloth. Long enough for one to use it to hang oneself and committe suicide. That's what many Bangladeshi women tried to do, having been raped by the Pakistani soldiers. So what the soldiers did was to imprison those women into rape houses naked, so they won't be able to committe suicide.

Soldiers rounded up young men, blindfolded them - and then gunned them down from behind.

So, please kindly name me a single Pakistani scholar who gave out a fatwa, saying that all these things were absolutely haram - and they should not do it and if forced to do, then they should quit the Pakistani army force. Tell me which shaykh got imprisoned and banished from Pakistan.

I will say the same for Afghanistan. Bloody tribal war. Jihad? Whose Jihad? Mujahid? Whose Mujahid?

You also have Darfur where government backed Arab Muslims and non-Arab Muslim are fighting each other. Do you know the civilian death toll???

The same for Hamas. They talk of "Islam" and what not and yet, they have no remorse and shame killing their fellow Muslims Palestinians Fatah members. They even killed the kids of fatah members. Killing for what? In whose name? And how exactly are they justified?

One of the shaykh mentioned on that fatwa posted by MARWAN was Sh Yusuf Qardawi. Well, he is based in Qatar. Right? How many US army bases does Qatar have? How many of them were used to attack Iraq? Where is his fatwa against those US army bases in Qatar?

Edited by Xenos - 03 September 2007 at 8:32pm

"I am a slave. I eat as a slave eats and I sit as a slave sits.", Beloved, sallallahu alyhi wa-sallam.

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

Ibn Al-Akwa

Graduate

Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 2514
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 03 September 2007 at 9:46pm

Althoug, I do not appreciate brothers to bring up old animosity (Bangladesh/Pakistan), but I do agree with Xenos that Ulema are asleep when there is a need for them.... well what do you expect when the Muftis are chosen by the corrupt governments based on their loyalties, not their knowledge... and those who raise their voices are put into prisons.

Muslim presidents, Kings and prime ministers, leaders have failed their tests and joined the army of Munafeqeen or Murtadeen, and it seems that scholars are failing too now. Issuing Fatwahs that it is ok to join the Army...

I am trying to even get away from this country so that I don't have to pay taxes to support war on so called terror.... let alone joining the army of a country which is sworn to kill my brothers.... Astaghferullah!

Edited by Ibn Al-Akwa - 04 September 2007 at 12:03am

8:36: Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah. So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome.

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

IssaRaheem

Senior Member

Location: United States
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 709
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 28 September 2007 at 3:33am

Salaam,

I was wondering something... If America is so bad, or the west for that matter. Why do muslims come here in such Large Numbers? I mean, I love Chechnya, and I couldn't imagine moving to Russia for the simple fact of the Atrocities they have commited against the Chechen people. This isn't a derogatory question, I would like to truely know the answer. People come here to flee the oppression they faced, for a better life. To me I see a beauty in that, as long as someone doesn't flee thier corrupt Country, then trash this country in the process. To me that seems like a clear form of Hypocrisy.

I wanna know why America is so hated, and a Country like Russia who hardly gets a mention, has Killed Millions upon Millions of Muslims. With no remorse whatsoever. Not just a war against muslims, but a Genocide! And why can't we mention how in America, so many people send aid to suffering Muslims in Africa and beyond, then the whole country gets labeled as some kind of beast.

Did you know that in 2006, America Provided 65% of the World Program food aid to Sudan? And that America is the WORLD leader in ALL aid distributed to Sudan, a Majority Muslim country? It's sad that some of these Oil rich countries are so concerned with only one or two causes, while Muslim brothers and Sisters have to rely on Aid from "EVIL" America..

http://www.myspace.com/issaraheem

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

amoxoxoma

Graduate

Religion: Christian(Catholic)
Posts: 2015
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 28 September 2007 at 3:48am

IssaRaheem

The more deeply we are our true selves, the less self is in us.
Meister Eckhart

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

Islamway

Mureed

Allahu Akbar
Religion: Islam(Sunni)
Posts: 3140
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 28 September 2007 at 4:26am

Both America and Russia are hated for being responsible for the oppression of Muslims.

I don't want to get into CE

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8539

Edited by Islamway - 28 September 2007 at 4:28am

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

IssaRaheem

Senior Member

Location: United States
Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 709
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 28 September 2007 at 4:30am

Salaam,

So why do muslims move here? From Afghanistan, Iraq, ext...?

http://www.myspace.com/issaraheem

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

mai moslemah

Mureed

Religion: Islam(Muslim)
Posts: 3983
Forum Rating: 0

Rating: 0 of 0 votes

Posted: 28 September 2007 at 8:38am

America is not hated..but the government is hated because of all the opression... But the American people No, I do not think they are hated...there is some people who mix btw hating the goverment and American but they are exactly like American who mix btw hating terrorism and Islam..Both of them need education, they need to talk to each other, the problem is the presence of gap btw us.

But don`t you see?that i am truely free? this piece of scarf on me;i wear so proudly to preserve my dignity,modesty & integrity....why can`t i just be me??? "i am the one who is free!!!!

No Guest-Voting

IP Logged

	Hall of Fame Active Topics Memberlist Search Help Chat
	Register Login

Archive ( Forum Locked)
Whyislam.org Forums : Archive : Archive

Topic: Ulema fatwas against Muslim fighting
	Page of 2 Next >>

Author	Message
Xenos Senior Member Location: Australia Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 466 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Topic: Ulema fatwas against Muslim fighting Posted: 30 August 2007 at 6:37am
	Just out of curiosity: Where are the fatwas when Iraq invaded Kuwait? Where were the Ulemas giving Fatwas saying that they should not join the Iraqi army? Saying that it is haram? How about the Iraq Iran war? Where are the Ulemas? Where were the Ulemas when Muslims fought Muslims in tribal war in Afghanistan? Taliban against Northern Alliance? Where are the Ulemas saying that it is haram and they should not join either of them? Where were the Ulemas when Pakistani soldiers massacred their fellow Bangladeshi Muslims and raped Muslims women? Where were the Ulemas saying that it is haram to join Pakistani army? Where are the Ulemas and their Fatwas about Fatah and Hamas killing each other?
	"I am a slave. I eat as a slave eats and I sit as a slave sits.", Beloved, sallallahu alyhi wa-sallam.

	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

Naadir Muhammed Undergraduate Location: United States Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 1788 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 02 September 2007 at 11:51pm
	I agree with you all the way, Xenos. Edited by Naadir Muhammed - 02 September 2007 at 11:51pm
	There is only one death, so let it be in the path of Allah" Shaykh 'Abdullah 'Azzam (RH)
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

ScoobyGurl Mureed The Modern Muslimah Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 3952 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 02 September 2007 at 11:57pm
	ITA with you Xenos. Edited by ScoobyGurl - 03 September 2007 at 8:46pm
	"Every Muslim ought to be able to say 'The Qur'an has been revealed for me.'" Muhammad Asad Islam in View
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

Faris al-Farik Sophmore Member Location: United States Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 330 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 03 September 2007 at 10:39am
	*Originally posted by Xenos* Just out of curiosity: Where are the fatwas when Iraq invaded Kuwait? Where were the Ulemas giving Fatwas saying that they should not join the Iraqi army? Saying that it is haram? How about the Iraq Iran war? Where are the Ulemas? Where were the Ulemas when Muslims fought Muslims in tribal war in Afghanistan? Taliban against Northern Alliance? Where are the Ulemas saying that it is haram and they should not join either of them? Where were the Ulemas when Pakistani soldiers massacred their fellow Bangladeshi Muslims and raped Muslims women? Where were the Ulemas saying that it is haram to join Pakistani army? Where are the Ulemas and their Fatwas about Fatah and Hamas killing each other? Hi Xenos: I should have read your post before I wrote mine. The US Army has many Muslims serving honorably and well. Chaplain Muhammad was the First Muslim Chaplain commissioned in the US Armed Forces. I personally know two Muslim chaplains serving (one is in Iraq) today. Isolationism is not a good tool for Muslim who are called to be activists. Thanks again!
	Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth.(Qur'an 2:255)
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

steady Graduate Religion: Atheist(Atheist) Posts: 2189 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 03 September 2007 at 11:59am
	The point that the fatwa carefully avoids is that of being allowed to fight if you feel that the Muslim nation is under threat ... Regimes like the Taliban and ideologies such as that espoused by Al-Qaida are destructive to Islam as they are to the West ... An example is the use of child suicide bombers by Abdullah Dadullah recently ... Surely a good Muslim would join up and fight against such corrosive and pernicious belief systems in good conscience.
	To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower. Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour. - Blake
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

jana.z Mureed Bismillah Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 3674 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 03 September 2007 at 2:53pm
	*Originally posted by Xenos* Just out of curiosity: Where are the fatwas when Iraq invaded Kuwait? Where were the Ulemas giving Fatwas saying that they should not join the Iraqi army? Saying that it is haram? How about the Iraq Iran war? Where are the Ulemas? Where were the Ulemas when Muslims fought Muslims in tribal war in Afghanistan? Taliban against Northern Alliance? Where are the Ulemas saying that it is haram and they should not join either of them? Where were the Ulemas when Pakistani soldiers massacred their fellow Bangladeshi Muslims and raped Muslims women? Where were the Ulemas saying that it is haram to join Pakistani army? Where are the Ulemas and their Fatwas about Fatah and Hamas killing each other? absolutely awesome reply!!
	And hold fast, all together to the rope of Allah and do not separate.”Âl’ Imran:103) http://myimmatureviewpoint.blogspot.com/ http://solomuslimah.blogspot.com/
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

Azhar Sophmore Member Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 434 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 03 September 2007 at 3:55pm
	There are several fatawa for each of those instances Xenos, and some of the scholars were even imprisoned and so on for issuing them in their respective countries, others were banished and so on. None of the fatawa have received as much flak, as those of the Iraq War, for stating only that the war is illegal from an Islamic perspective ?!?!
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

Xenos Senior Member Location: Australia Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 466 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 03 September 2007 at 8:31pm
	Azhar, Name me a single Pakistani scholar who was imprisoned - or even banished, as you claim, for giving fatwa against Pakistani butchering of their fellow Bangladeshi Muslim men, women and Children? You know, Bangladeshi women wears saris. It is really a long piece of cloth. Long enough for one to use it to hang oneself and committe suicide. That's what many Bangladeshi women tried to do, having been raped by the Pakistani soldiers. So what the soldiers did was to imprison those women into rape houses naked, so they won't be able to committe suicide. Soldiers rounded up young men, blindfolded them - and then gunned them down from behind. So, please kindly name me a single Pakistani scholar who gave out a fatwa, saying that all these things were absolutely haram - and they should not do it and if forced to do, then they should quit the Pakistani army force. Tell me which shaykh got imprisoned and banished from Pakistan. I will say the same for Afghanistan. Bloody tribal war. Jihad? Whose Jihad? Mujahid? Whose Mujahid? You also have Darfur where government backed Arab Muslims and non-Arab Muslim are fighting each other. Do you know the civilian death toll??? The same for Hamas. They talk of "Islam" and what not and yet, they have no remorse and shame killing their fellow Muslims Palestinians Fatah members. They even killed the kids of fatah members. Killing for what? In whose name? And how exactly are they justified? One of the shaykh mentioned on that fatwa posted by MARWAN was Sh Yusuf Qardawi. Well, he is based in Qatar. Right? How many US army bases does Qatar have? How many of them were used to attack Iraq? Where is his fatwa against those US army bases in Qatar? Edited by Xenos - 03 September 2007 at 8:32pm
	"I am a slave. I eat as a slave eats and I sit as a slave sits.", Beloved, sallallahu alyhi wa-sallam.
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

Ibn Al-Akwa Graduate Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 2514 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 03 September 2007 at 9:46pm
	Althoug, I do not appreciate brothers to bring up old animosity (Bangladesh/Pakistan), but I do agree with Xenos that Ulema are asleep when there is a need for them.... well what do you expect when the Muftis are chosen by the corrupt governments based on their loyalties, not their knowledge... and those who raise their voices are put into prisons. Muslim presidents, Kings and prime ministers, leaders have failed their tests and joined the army of Munafeqeen or Murtadeen, and it seems that scholars are failing too now. Issuing Fatwahs that it is ok to join the Army... I am trying to even get away from this country so that I don't have to pay taxes to support war on so called terror.... let alone joining the army of a country which is sworn to kill my brothers.... *Astaghferullah!* Edited by Ibn Al-Akwa - 04 September 2007 at 12:03am
	8:36: Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah. So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome.
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

IssaRaheem Senior Member Location: United States Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 709 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 28 September 2007 at 3:33am
	Salaam, I was wondering something... If America is so bad, or the west for that matter. Why do muslims come here in such Large Numbers? I mean, I love Chechnya, and I couldn't imagine moving to Russia for the simple fact of the Atrocities they have commited against the Chechen people. This isn't a derogatory question, I would like to truely know the answer. People come here to flee the oppression they faced, for a better life. To me I see a beauty in that, as long as someone doesn't flee thier corrupt Country, then trash this country in the process. To me that seems like a clear form of Hypocrisy. I wanna know why America is so hated, and a Country like Russia who hardly gets a mention, has Killed Millions upon Millions of Muslims. With no remorse whatsoever. Not just a war against muslims, but a Genocide! And why can't we mention how in America, so many people send aid to suffering Muslims in Africa and beyond, then the whole country gets labeled as some kind of beast. Did you know that in 2006, America Provided 65% of the World Program food aid to Sudan? And that America is the WORLD leader in ALL aid distributed to Sudan, a Majority Muslim country? It's sad that some of these Oil rich countries are so concerned with only one or two causes, while Muslim brothers and Sisters have to rely on Aid from "EVIL" America..
	http://www.myspace.com/issaraheem
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

amoxoxoma Graduate Religion: Christian(Catholic) Posts: 2015 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 28 September 2007 at 3:48am
	IssaRaheem
	The more deeply we are our true selves, the less self is in us. Meister Eckhart
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

Islamway Mureed Allahu Akbar Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 3140 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 28 September 2007 at 4:26am
	Both America and Russia are hated for being responsible for the oppression of Muslims. I don't want to get into CE http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8539 Edited by Islamway - 28 September 2007 at 4:28am
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

IssaRaheem Senior Member Location: United States Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 709 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 28 September 2007 at 4:30am
	Salaam, So why do muslims move here? From Afghanistan, Iraq, ext...?
	http://www.myspace.com/issaraheem
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

mai moslemah Mureed Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 3983 Forum Rating: 0	Rating: 0 of 0 votes Posted: 28 September 2007 at 8:38am
	America is not hated..but the government is hated because of all the opression... But the American people No, I do not think they are hated...there is some people who mix btw hating the goverment and American but they are exactly like American who mix btw hating terrorism and Islam..Both of them need education, they need to talk to each other, the problem is the presence of gap btw us.
	But don`t you see?that i am truely free? this piece of scarf on me;i wear so proudly to preserve my dignity,modesty & integrity....why can`t i just be me??? "i am the one who is free!!!!
	No Guest-Voting IP Logged

Disclaimer The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed by members of the Whyislam Forum do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of the Whyislam Team, or any of its subsidiaries, or parent organizations.